In our day, all we had were trenches and barbed wire…

Injured pride…an ultimate scar upon his honor. Shayorin sat there, staring out into the sunset as the landing force celebrated their victory, and the soldiers that just landed reported to superiors. News would spread fast of this, and he would have to slip away quietly, helping the war effort here and there, but eventually murdering that Prince and wearing his head as a trophy. Of course, things do not always go as planned, for he would be swept into this war to take Ulthuan, and carry his dishonor with him…for a long time it would seem. An older Dark Elf approached him, grabbed him by his belt, and dragged him onto his feet. It was his friend, and his superior officer, Talavar.

“Up. You have no time to brood upon this dishonor my friend. You will find this prince, and strike him down. I am sure of it. But now, we must continue on. Malekith wants us to take Nimosaur from the High Elves. More kills for us all. Let your hatred fuel your motions, and let your blade taste the blood of your enemy.”

Talavar continued on, and Shayorin followed. Friendships usually did not last long in Dark Elf society, but theirs had persisted since birth. Malekith saw this, and used it to motivate them both. They were two of his greatest weapons. With their help, all of the High Elves would kneel to him one day.


((Added Fan Fiction after the fact))

I’m really busy, but I wanted to make up a post…and no, I’m not that old. That’s like, World War I, I know. But, I think it pretty appropriately goes with what I’m talking about. Now, one of my favorite blogs, that I read all the time, is Keen and Graev’s Gaming Blog. The last two posts made by Keen had to do with RvR, more specifically Keep Siege Rewards and Battlefield Objectives, and some changes that need to be made, and I think Keen makes a pretty good point in both cases. First of all, let me give a shout out to Mythic for their dedication to ‘fixing’ Fortress Sieges. Though I haven’t participated in one, I do notice that the server doesn’t crash while one is going on, which really helps Destruction smash their way into Altdorf…and Mythic still continues to take servers down to increase server stability. But, back to the subject at hand, the state of our RvR, and the suggested improvements.

From what I understand, Keep Siege contribution is a lot like PQs. Depending upon your ‘contribution’ to the completion of the task, you may get a bonus towards your roll, and your roll will be stacked against all the others who participated, and that determines the acquisition of loot bags, which hold precious gear…Now, how this stuff is calculated we’ll never know, and how someone who gets first place in contribution, yet places 4-5th in rolls is totally beyond me. What most would suggest, and it seems that Keen suggests, is to be rewarded for participating, and then having this ‘lottery’ type system in as a little bonus. This is how Keen puts it,


Add a TOKEN system – This one is my favorite version of the current system because it eventually rewards everyone for participating, yet allows for some people to still win instantly.  The details:

  • Keep the currently PQ system in place.
  • Gold bags, blue bags, green bags, etc are given out to the winners.
  • Anyone who didn’t get a bag, but participated enough to get contribution, receives a TOKEN.
  • These tokens can be redeemed in certain quantities for the same items that players loot out of the bags from a merchant in the warcamps.

All in all, a wonderful idea. This way, unless all you did was sit there watching, you’ll get some kind of reward. Something I would like to add to this though, is, have the loot bags have some sort of way to distinguish them as RvR loot bags, and then, instead of being able to pull out money, why not put an amount of tokens which equals the piece of gear you could get out of the bag. This is just from my narrow experience, so if my point of view is completely off, wrong, and ridiculous, you can politely complain at me! This could also allow them to put new titles, such as:

“Take only tokens from RvR Loot Bags 10 times = Arcade Junkie” ((I know, stupid title, but tokens and arcades go hand in hand!))

“Spend 1000 Tokens = The Wasteful Spender ((Especially good if there are things you can purchase besides gear with your tokens.))

“Collect 1000 Tokens = The Big Saver”

I have a bit more to say about tokens and what kind of uses there are, but I want to get through some of this other stuff, since in the end, all of it can mix together. Oh, and if Keen sees this, please, tell me if you mind me quoting your ideas. They’re just brilliant ideas, and the more they go around, the more Mythic might pay attention.


Next, he touches on the persistence system used in PQs. The more you participate in the same PQ, but do no receive anything for a reward, the more of a bonus you’ll get to your roll, meaning eventually, you will get something. He suggests adding it into the Keep Siege system, explaining that it would work to distribute gear in a more efficient way, like the tokens.


His final suggestion, which is quite drastic in his own right, as he acknowledges, sort of took my by surprise,


Remove the bags completely and move to a pure TOKEN system –   It centers around the idea that a token system for gear is far more fair and essentially devalues gear the most by completely distributing the gear to everyone who participated.  This is the only system I’m suggesting that removes the “vegas loot”, but there are a few points to look at.

The problem that I see here is that it can reward people for being minimalists.  They’ll figure out how to create an Addon that will track contribution and once they reach it, they’ll go AFK or stop trying.  We don’t want this, but perhaps there’s a way to work around it so that we can get rid of the loot bags.

  • Establish a contribution threshold that everyone must attain during the keep siege to weed out the leeches.
  • Remove the vegas loot roll but keep the Contribution System in place to make sure it tracks who participates.
  • Those who are deemed the top contributors receives 2 Tokens and everyone else receives 1.
  • -OR-
  • Everyone who participates gets 1 token.
  • Tokens are redeemed in Warcamps for gear.



The only problem I have with this one is…well, the whole idea. I think that even with a token system implemented, loot bags should still be a part of system, but in a different way. Just take RvR armor that is so sought after, and remove it from the loot bags, and maybe, as I said earlier, have the option to get some extra tokens instead of the basic money reward that you can choose instead of items. As for how much is rewarded, I would take his idea of a contribution threshold that you must reach to get at least 1 token, and have tiers to it, so that after you contribute a certain amount, it bumps you up to the next reward tier, up to let’s say 3 tokens. So, as long as you contribute alot, you’ll get more tokens. Also, this will not depend on luck, or a roll, since as long as you make it to the contribution tier, you would recieve your tokens. Depending on the forumla used to calculate contribution however, it may take a bit of modification, but we can give Mythic some time if they decide on this.


Now, Keen’s next post, and I will try to spend a short amount of time on this one, deals with Battlefield objectives. They are basically just a point farm, with useless benefits, and Keen seems to be toying with the objectives, and trying to make them useful. Something you can also hear about if you listen to Chaos Cast #9 is how they could indeed become useful. Siege Workshops and Crafting Guilds were put forth by Keen, and Snafzg put forth an idea that would theme the certain advantages gained from objectives around common resources used in warfare. Think Warcraft III, with Lumber and Gold, but add in stone and ore and stuff like that.


Keen’s ideas are a bit long in his post, so I’ll try to brush over them briefly, for the sake of this post’s length. He states that the points gained from capture are good, but do not stand alone very well as a reward, the buffs and bonuses to guards are useless, and the whole process it pretty much easy and stupid. They don’t incorporate themselves well into the landscape of RvR and keep sieges…the quickest solution would be to remove them, while the better one would be to improve them. Hell, if you improve them, why not add more? I bet that there would be strategic Battlefield Objectives all over a battlefield.

Siege Workshops – Yes, this idea copies heavily from WoW but alters (and improves) it to adapt it to WAR’s style of PvP.  Basically, some of the objectives would be siege workshops that, when captured, offer the controlling team new siege weapons that they can use in their RvR battles.  


An interesting point that was put forth… and I agree. This one would be quite useful, and if siege engines were added, it could add a bit more strategy to sieges. This is one of the places where I think tokens would be useful. Once this objective was captured, you could either buy the engines for some pretty high prices, since they would essenitally be really strong or give you a good advantage, or trade in those hard earned RvR tokens for them. Things like ladders, like in the Battle of Helms Deep from The Two Towers, ((we could only DREAM of those siege tower things they used in Minas Tirith)) or buyys to existing things for defenders, like oil that heats up your armor so much that you have to take it off, but that would just be the ‘story’ of it, when in reality it just takes away some of your armor, making you easier to beat down. Something Keen points at, that I sort of disagree with, is a special siege engine or such thing that would protect you from oil. I think that tanks should just have to equip their shield, and then target an ally, and use a skill which raises the shield over both their heads, protecting them from oil, but slowing down their movement speed. Another thing I’d lioke to see for this is Orcapults, like from the Gates of Ekrund, but they can be used to attack a Keep. Get in, have someone launch you, and hope to Mork ((Or Gork, or Khaine if you happen to swing that way)) you make it. If destructible walls were ever implemented, siege weapons and engines alike would make for a lot more fun. I also approve of door repair! Another thing, I think the Keep Lord should be a bit more than just a dude who stands around and waits to fight. It would happen in stages, like, when you breach he door, he sends his guards down to fight you, and when you reach him, he’ll stand in fight. After you get him down a certain amount, he’ll use a skill that throws everyone back, and he charges up the stairs. Do this until he reaches the top, where the epic battle against him will take place. It may cause problems, but it would feel more epic, in my opinion. Other such improvements or changes to the Keep Lord COULD be made to make battles last a little longer…and improvements to Keeps and sieges themselves.


Wooh, boy, a huge rant, and I forgot half of what I said. Keen, some wonderful ideas over there, and if you all want to read a full, non-quoted, non-shortened version of his pure genious posts, head on over to Well, that about wraps this up, since I have to actually go and PLAY some WAR now!


Regards, Shayorin!


~ by krimmzon on January 13, 2009.

One Response to “In our day, all we had were trenches and barbed wire…”

  1. The only problem I see with PQ-like increased chance at keep sieges that if you move out of the range of the “PQ” (keep siege in this case) you automatically lose the bonus chance. And I doubt that anyone would wait at a keep until it’s captured by the enemy forces just to keep the bonus for roll when it’s recaptured.

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